This is for Mark really, but I think it may be interesting to see what others think.
I started wargaming in 20mm. I think that is true for most of us who grew up in the 70s and early 80s in the UK. It is almost impossible to explain just how limited your options were as a wargamer in those days. Initially it was just one word. Airfix
I know there were other manufacturers out there making metal models, but if you were like me a young lad the chance of ever discovering them was slim, and even if you were aware you still needed to write and send a self addressed envelope (and possibly a postal order) to get a typed and un-illustrated catalogue. Luckily we had Airfix, and it was available in just about every newsagent and toy shop in the country.
Airfix were the main supporter of my wargaming from the start. That meant for most "periods" their soft plastic 20mm (1:76) figures or polystyrene kits, supported by their rule books initially loaned from the library and illicitly photocopied.
WW2 was the big interest for me. After all the war ended only 30 years before and we all had family members who had taken part. It was possible to play other periods of course, and the idea of fighting Agincourt using just the figures available in the two "Robin Hood" boxes must have occurred, but the main arena was WW2. Choice was, well, limited. Airfix had a vast breadth of range, but it did lack depth. Germans could happily fill their order of battle with Panzer IVs, Panthers and Tigers, and the ubiquitous German Recce set provided a Kubel and 222, but that was about it. Similarly the Brits could get their hands on a Churchill, Sherman, Crusader and Matilda. This made for exciting times if you were so inclined, trying to convert a passable Cromwell out of plasticard and the wheels from a Crusader etc. Later, Matchbox joined the fray, adding such much needed kits as a Panzer II and III, and a Sherman Firefly. All of this was in what we now call 20mm, and as a WW2 wargamer there was nothing to compete.
But today 20mm is rapidly shrinking into the shadows. Initially 15mm, then more recently 28mm have dominated WW2 gaming. 20mm still survives, but it is no longer the first choice for me and many others, so why is that?
Firstly I should say in many ways it IS the logical scale of choice for some games. Availability of cheap plastic kits in an amazing variety, some, such as those by Dragon are available painted to a standard most of us could only dream of. Figures have also come a long way, and figures by companies such as AB are frankly streets ahead of most of their 28mm rivals in terms of detail and animation. Range is also very comprehensive. In 28mm I only know of one manufacturer makes Belgian infantry, not so in 20mm. Try finding a Sdkfz 132 Marder II in 28mm, no problem in 20mm. Price is also VERY alluring - 20mm kits being equivalently priced to 15mm ones, and usually a fraction of a 28mm one.
The problem is the tyranny of the masses. 15mm has blossomed with popular rules like Flames of War rapidly dominating the market at the "Company" level of gaming. 28mm has followed suit at "Platoon" level even if Bolt Action has a very suspect concept of what a Platoon actually was. What that means is that if you want to play a WW2 game, those scales are where you will have the best chance of finding an opponent. And that, sadly, is a fairly huge factor. OK if your club or group want to either stick with 20mm or start afresh, but once you are in, you are committing to a very fixed group, and if, as often happens, you fall out or move on, then you may end up trying to play solo.
I would also add I like 28mm as a scale to paint. As I grow older I can no longer conceive of painting some of the smaller scales to a standard I would be happy with. That may not include 20mm yet, but it is getting there. And then there is the spectacle. a Tiger in 28mm is quite a lump of eye candy in a way 20mm cant quite manage.
And of course, once you commit to 28mm, it makes little sense to play other scales for similar projects. I'm excited at the soon to be released Chain of Command Fall of France expansion. If I were starting from scratch I may conciser 20mm, (edit - I originally typed 28mm instead of 20mm) but I'm not. I already have quite a bit of 28mm kit that will port over, and a group who prefer to play in 28mm (and another local group who would look puzzled at the thought of playing in 20mm).
So that is why, with some sadness, I wont be starting 20mm again. Sorry Mark, it just does not make sense to me, but I understand why you make the suggestion.
Comments please - let's try and discuss
Showing posts with label 23mm. Show all posts
Showing posts with label 23mm. Show all posts
Monday, 3 September 2018
Monday, 28 November 2016
Valiant Miniatures 1:72 scale IF8 Infantry Cart
Sometimes you come across a model that just makes you say "wow". The Valiant Miniatures IF8 Infantry Cart is one of those.
Firstly, you have to wonder why no one did one before, as it is such an iconic piece of German military equipment. Shortly after you have to wonder about why Valiant did it at all, and did it in injection moulded plastic, when there are so many other things they could have done.
Bit of history. The Infantriekarren IF8 to give it its proper name was a simple cart issued to just about every infantry unit in the German Army. Anyone who has seen pics of the Germans on the move will probably have seen one, even if your mind fails to register what is in fact a simple two wheeled cart. They were designed to be hand pulled, horse drawn or even by motorcycle or Kettenkrad. I've even seen pics of one being pulled by dogs! You could pull two together in tandem. They were used for carrying, well anything, but mainly ammunition and other infantry supplies.
However, I can hear you thinking - as I did, why? Wargamers are notorious for wanting big tanks and guns and on this measure I admit the IF8 is a bit lacking, as it doesn't do anything "kewl" and you would be hard pushed to think of a special rule to apply to it. On the other hand this is a fantastic piece of military equipment that will enhance the look of your game just by being there. I plan to use mine as jump off markers for my German Infantry in Chain of Command.
Back to the kit. Its a nice and well detailed kit, you actually get 2 identical sprues in the box, each will make one cart, plus a horse and a soldier to lead it. It goes together well and quickly, and you can build a number different load-outs including a Panzershrek frame and an MG42 AA mount.
You can't mention Valiant without mentioning scale. It says 1/72 on the box. Received wisdom in wargaming circles is 1/72 equates to 20mm. The problem is that the soldier provided is rather taller than that, much closer to 25mm, but still small when compared to other "28mm" ranges. In short (pun intended) these really only fit with other Valiant models.
I'm still totally conflicted about Valiant. They're superb models, but they just don't fit with anything else.
Firstly, you have to wonder why no one did one before, as it is such an iconic piece of German military equipment. Shortly after you have to wonder about why Valiant did it at all, and did it in injection moulded plastic, when there are so many other things they could have done.
Bit of history. The Infantriekarren IF8 to give it its proper name was a simple cart issued to just about every infantry unit in the German Army. Anyone who has seen pics of the Germans on the move will probably have seen one, even if your mind fails to register what is in fact a simple two wheeled cart. They were designed to be hand pulled, horse drawn or even by motorcycle or Kettenkrad. I've even seen pics of one being pulled by dogs! You could pull two together in tandem. They were used for carrying, well anything, but mainly ammunition and other infantry supplies.
However, I can hear you thinking - as I did, why? Wargamers are notorious for wanting big tanks and guns and on this measure I admit the IF8 is a bit lacking, as it doesn't do anything "kewl" and you would be hard pushed to think of a special rule to apply to it. On the other hand this is a fantastic piece of military equipment that will enhance the look of your game just by being there. I plan to use mine as jump off markers for my German Infantry in Chain of Command.
Back to the kit. Its a nice and well detailed kit, you actually get 2 identical sprues in the box, each will make one cart, plus a horse and a soldier to lead it. It goes together well and quickly, and you can build a number different load-outs including a Panzershrek frame and an MG42 AA mount.
You can't mention Valiant without mentioning scale. It says 1/72 on the box. Received wisdom in wargaming circles is 1/72 equates to 20mm. The problem is that the soldier provided is rather taller than that, much closer to 25mm, but still small when compared to other "28mm" ranges. In short (pun intended) these really only fit with other Valiant models.
I'm still totally conflicted about Valiant. They're superb models, but they just don't fit with anything else.
Sunday, 15 June 2014
Chain of Command Supports (2) Ready to Roll \ Rapid Fire
Not the Dinky Diecast Daimler Dingo's (DDDD or 4D?) I should add.
These are a pair of Bren Carriers and a Humber MkIV from Rapid Fire \ Ready to Roll range, pic also shows the "de-crewed" Valiant 6Pdr. They were bought because they are supposed to be closest to Valiant Miniatures in size \ scale. The static grass is still loose btw and needs work, and there is a fair amount of decalling and detailing to be done if I can be arsed. I think the Carriers are OK but the Humber is still too small for my liking. I'll still use them though.
I would add the Ready to Roll stuff is OK. Less work required than to build a plastic kit, but at the expense of detail and the fact they have a solid resin base. I think they are a stepping stone between the old metal wargaming products (Hinchcliffe \ Skytrex etc) and the new plastic stuff (PSC). They come ready with stowage so all you need do is paint them.
The whole scale \ size thing drives me to distraction. While I appreciate that the height of a man may vary from person to person, the length of a Lee Enfield, or a Bren Carrier on the whole does not. You would therefore assume that getting a suitable scale model would not be too much of a challenge. The problem is we have become used to accepting "20mm" and "25mm" as a scale, which they are not. Valiant are the worse culprits, being too big for "20mm", too small for "25mm" and certainly not 1:72 scale, which is what they say on the box. I should follow that up with some more on Valiant as I have a love\hate relationship with them that is probably worth a few lines and even if not helpful or enlightening to the reader it will probably be cathartic for me :-)
These are a pair of Bren Carriers and a Humber MkIV from Rapid Fire \ Ready to Roll range, pic also shows the "de-crewed" Valiant 6Pdr. They were bought because they are supposed to be closest to Valiant Miniatures in size \ scale. The static grass is still loose btw and needs work, and there is a fair amount of decalling and detailing to be done if I can be arsed. I think the Carriers are OK but the Humber is still too small for my liking. I'll still use them though.
I would add the Ready to Roll stuff is OK. Less work required than to build a plastic kit, but at the expense of detail and the fact they have a solid resin base. I think they are a stepping stone between the old metal wargaming products (Hinchcliffe \ Skytrex etc) and the new plastic stuff (PSC). They come ready with stowage so all you need do is paint them.
The whole scale \ size thing drives me to distraction. While I appreciate that the height of a man may vary from person to person, the length of a Lee Enfield, or a Bren Carrier on the whole does not. You would therefore assume that getting a suitable scale model would not be too much of a challenge. The problem is we have become used to accepting "20mm" and "25mm" as a scale, which they are not. Valiant are the worse culprits, being too big for "20mm", too small for "25mm" and certainly not 1:72 scale, which is what they say on the box. I should follow that up with some more on Valiant as I have a love\hate relationship with them that is probably worth a few lines and even if not helpful or enlightening to the reader it will probably be cathartic for me :-)
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